Agenda and minutes

RESOLVED that, subject to the addition to Minute 41 (3) of a new sub-paragraph (f), below, to reflect Mr Hirst’s comment,   

(f)      under Self-Directed Support, clients could manage their own service provision directly, and this should result in a reduction to, rather than an increase in, the number of County Council administrative staff required in that area.

the Minutes of the meeting held on 23 September 2008 are correctly recorded and that they be signed by the Chairman.  There were no matters arising.

(Presentation by Miss C Highwood, Director of Resources and Ms J Pannell, Policy & Strategy Manager)

All Members of the County Council were invited to attend for the presentation and to ask questions of Miss Highwood and Ms Pannell.  All Members had been sent a copy of a written report which summarised the issues covered in the consultation and set out the comments received so far from Local Board meetings. 

The slides used in the presentation are attached to these Minutes at Appendix 1

(1)       Miss Highwood and Ms Pannell introduced the report and explained that comments contributed by Members at today’s meeting would be collated with comments from Local Boards and would form part of the County Council’s response to the Department of Health’s consultation by the deadline of 28 November 2008.  A summary of the comments made by Members during the course of the two hour debate (will be) attached to these Minutes at Appendix 2.

(2)       Members and officers agreed that the comments being sent the County Council’s response now should not preclude the opportunity for Members to comment further on the issue when the Green Paper was published (in the summer or autumn of 2009).  It was suggested that, at that time, the POC hold a special meeting to discuss the issue again.

(3)       RESOLVED that:-

            (a)       the comments made by Members and listed in Appendix 2 to these Minutes be submitted to the Department of Health as part of KCC’s response to the consultation, along with the comments made by/at Local Boards which are listed in the written report which accompanied the presentation; and

            (b)       a further special meeting of the POC be convened to allow further discussion of the issues when the Green Paper is published in the summer or autumn of 2009.

(Miss M Goldsmith, Directorate Finance Manager, was in attendance for this and the following item)

(1)       Mr Mills and Miss Goldsmith introduced the report and answered questions of detail from Members on the Deferred Payments Grant, Direct Payments and Personal Budgets.

(2)       RESOLVED that the projected outturn figures for the Directorate, as at October 2008, be noted.

(1)       Miss Goldsmith introduced the report, summarised the pressures facing the Directorate compared to this time last year and pointed out parts of the report which had been included for the first time this year.  She explained that, this year, the report was an ‘exceptions’ report and that, next year, the timing of POC meetings had been addressed to help discussion of the Medium Term Plan.

(2)       Mr R F Manning proposed and Mr L Christie seconded that an Informal Member Group be set up to look in more detail at the MTP and attempt to identify priorities and areas of potential savings.

Agreed without a vote

(3)       RESOLVED that:-

            (a)       the information in the report, and given in response to Members’ questions, be noted; and

            (b)       an Informal Member Group be established to look in more detail at the Medium Term Plan and address the recommendation in the report that ‘Members identify and express relative priorities for services and indicate broadly areas and types of savings and efficiencies that they consider could be realistically achieved.’

(Mrs L Longhurst, Policy Manager, Public Involvement and Customer Care, was in attendance for this and the following item)

(1)       Mrs Longhurst introduced the report and answered questions of detail from Members.  In discussion, Members expressed concern that:-

            (a)       public consultation exercises when undertaken should reach the most representative sample of the population possible.  The audience attracted by “Around Kent” the KCC magazine used in the “The Case for Change” consultation, could be considered too self-selecting to be truly representative of the Kent population; and

            (b)       provision of Elders’ and Senior Citizens’ Forums should be equitable across East and West Kent and should be adequately funded.

(2)       RESOLVED that the content of the report be noted.

(1)       Mrs Longhurst introduced the report and emphasised that Kent Adult Social Services had always approached complaints in a positive and constructive way, looking for what could be learnt from them.  This approach to complaints forms part of the induction for all new KASS staff and a rolling programme of refresher training reminds existing staff of the approach.  Kent is one of the early adopters of the Department of Health’s “Making Experience Count” pilot.

(2)       Members noted that KASS received more merits than complaints, which was very much welcomed as an indication of the quality of service delivered.

(3)       RESOLVED that the information in the report be noted.

(Miss C Martin, Head of Supporting People, was in attendance for this item)

(1)       Miss Martin introduced the report and outlined key developments in strategic reviews of Long Term Supported Housing and Older Persons’ provision.  Members noted that Kent provides an excellent service on the resources available (19 staff to support more than 20,000 clients) compared to other local authorities of a similar size, and that the location of the Supporting People team within KASS made the service easier to manage and monitor.

(2)       RESOLVED that the information in the report be noted.

(1)       Mr Mills introduced the report and pointed out that two different approaches to Member Briefing were being piloted in East and West Kent to see which was the most effective.

(2)       RESOLVED that the information in the report be noted.

(Mr W Forrester, Head of Gypsy and Traveller Unit and Project Board Chairman, and Mr D Woodward, Social Care Commissioner for Mental Health,were in attendance for this item.)

(1)       Mr Leidecker, Mr Forrester and Mr Woodward introduced the report and answered questions of detail from Members.  In the presentation, and in response to Members’ questions, the following points were highlighted:-

            (a)       the three houses in question, from which these services are currently delivered, in Ashford, Dover and Deal, were the only mental health day centre premises which were not commissioned from an external provider, and the proposed changes would bring them in line;

            (b)       although, under the proposals, they would be provided by independent sector providers, the services at the three premises would still be commissioned by the County Council and would not be separate from the main mental health commissioning process.  Staff at the premises would be employed by the not-for-profit organisation successful in the tender process, if the Cabinet Member decision confirms the transfer, and would transfer via the TUPE process;

            (c)        Following 26 original expressions of interest, seven not-for-profit organisations had so far taken part in the tendering process to deliver services under the new arrangements, and there were just two organisations now left in the frame; and

            (d)       Members requested a more detailed report on how the services would be delivered once the transfer was completed.

(2)       In debate, Mr Christie said he could not support the proposed transfer of services and said that he did not agree that it was necessarily right to transfer services as proposed just because this arrangement had been made at other premises.  Mrs Newell agreed that modernising services did not necessarily mean moving them outside the County Council.

(3)       Mrs A D Allen proposed and Mr M J Angell seconded recommendation (b) of the report and this was put to the vote.

Carried, 7 votes to 1

(4)       RESOLVED that:-

            (a)       the progress in modernising mental health services in East Kent, in line with national and local policy, be noted, and officers be thanked for the work put into this particular project; and

            (b)       the principle of transferring these services to an independent sector provider, subject to a key decision by the Cabinet Member for Adult Social Services, as set out in paragraph 7 of the report, be supported.

(1)       Miss Grayell introduced the report and Mr Christie added to section 2 of it that the ‘one year on’ meeting of the Carers in Kent Select Committee had now been confirmed for 30 January 2009.

(2)       RESOLVED that:-

            (a)       the progress of the ASD Select Committee and the arrangements for the ‘one year on’ meeting of the Carers in Kent Select Committee on 30 January 2009 be noted; and

            (b)       issues which Members would like to propose for inclusion in the 2009/10 Select Committee Work Programme be prepared for submission in the New Year for consideration by the Policy Overview Co-ordinating Committee at its meeting on 14 February 2009.