Agenda and draft minutes

There were no Member apologies or substitutes.

RESOLVED there were no Member declarations of interest in any items on the agenda.

RESOLVED that the minutes of the meeting held on the 30 October 2025 were a correct record and that a paper copy be signed by the Chair

1.     The Chair welcomed Ms Petra Der Man to the Committee as the new Monitoring Officer, taking over from Mr Ben Watts.

2.     Governance Advisor, Ms Katy Reynolds presented the verbal update and highlighted the following key points to Members:

        a)     Going forward, the Action Tracker document presented to the Committee, would only include items which remained open and required work, or which related to other items on the agenda.  The historic actions would remain on the Microsoft Teams site.

        b)     An additional Governance and Audit induction training session had been scheduled for 3 December 2025 and group leaders had been informed.

        c)     In terms of the Committee training, it was clarified that:

                      i)       Professional Development training for current Members

                               of the Committee was scheduled for the 2 December 2025 with Beth Evans.  This would take place in person.

                     ii)       The induction training scheduled for the 3 December was the mandatory minimum requirement for any Members who either wanted to qualify to join the Committee, or act as a substitute.  For maximum attendance, this would be presented virtually in Microsoft Teams.

        d)     It was confirmed that the Performance of the KCC wholly owned

                companies would be included in the January 2026 agenda.

        e)     Members requested a timeline to be added to the outstanding

                actions on the Action Tracker document, to indicate completion.

2.     Interim Director of Finance, Mr John Betts paid tribute to Mr Paul Dossett from external auditors, Grant Thornton.  Sincere thanks were expressed for all his work during the last 8 years, working closely with officers in Kent County Council.  The Committee also extended thanks to Mr Dossett for his contributions over the years.

3.     Deputy Chief Executive, Mr Ben Watts paid tribute to Mr John Betts for all his dedicated work in his capacity as Interim Corporate Director of Finance. Warmest wishes for his success and happiness were extended by the entire Committee.

4.     RESOLVED that Members NOTED the verbal update.

1.     The Verbal Update was presented by Mr Paul Dossett.  Some of key points highlighted to Members included:

        a)     Work on the accounts had been completed and they were signed off on 6 November; the Value for Money report had been considered by both the Governance and Audit Committee and by Full Council.

        b)     The only outstanding item for 2024-2025 was to complete the Whole of Government Accounts.  It was explained to Members that this was a government return, required for all local authorities.

        c)     Mr Dossett commented that Kent officers demonstrated real strength in supporting and cooperating with the audit process to prepare good accounts and good working papers.  Mr Dossett confirmed that the actions and commitment shown by officers contributed to a very positive experience.

        d)     Mr Dossett introduced Ms Sarah Ironmonger as the new Engagement Lead for Kent County Council.

2.     RESOLVED that Members NOTED the External Auditor’s verbal update.

1.     The Deputy Leader, Mr Brian Collins, introduced the report and highlighted the following to Members:

        a)     The debt had been lowered by £68.1 million since the new Administration had been in place. It was confirmed that some of the debt had matured, and some was included in one large early repayment.

        b)     The £50 million early repayment released financial pressure of £680,000 per annum.

2.     In answer to Member questions and comments, the following was said:

        a)     Mr Betts clarified that the agenda item covered debt which had been

                incurred as a result of borrowing and not short-term sundry debt. He

                clarified that the main areas of short-term debt for the Council were

                around Adult Social Care and this was being examined. The exact

                debt figures could be made available to Members after the meeting,

                along with information around attempted debt recovery.

        b)     Mr Betts clarified that the commentary in the Treasury Update

                Report was provided by KCC’s advisors and had been included to

                provide context. The report set out what the cash holdings were at

                the maximum and minimum between 1 April 2025 and 30 September

                2025. It was explained that the figures were there to provide an

                average and demonstrate to the Committee that the Authority was

                solvent, in the event that further opportunities to repay any debt

                arose.

        c)     The Head of Treasury and Pensions, Mr Nick Buckland, indicated to

                Members that the Strategic portfolio which the Council held for a

                number of years was introduced at a time of low interest rate, to

                achieve a level of investment return by holding investments on a

                more long term basis. Due to changes in accounting rules, the

                portfolio is scheduled for review. A plan was currently being

                developed with advisors to establish how to best execute this.

                Consideration would be given to whether the portfolio still served a

                purpose and if so, how much should be invested, and lastly whether

                the portfolio was the right selection.

        d)     Mr Buckland confirmed that he was not aware of how the

                investments were selected as this took place around 15 years ago

                however he could confirm that they were designed to be akin to the

                Pension Fund, in that a range of returns would be provided over a

                period of time which generated income.  Mr Buckland confirmed that

                further information relating to stocks could be provided to Members,

                if required.

        e)     In relation to the small number of Lend Option Borrower Option

                (LOBO Loans) held, it was confirmed that it was the counterparty’s

                responsibility as to whether they changed the rate or whether KCC

                considered repayment and potentially borrowing from elsewhere. 

        f)      It was highlighted that a training session on Treasury Management

                would be arranged for Members of the Committee in 2026 to

                demonstrate how the Treasury Advisors operated and what

                considerations were given to managing investment portfolios and

                loans.

        g)     The current interest rate of 4.1% on the LOBO loans was less than

                what the Council would have to  ...  view the full minutes text for item 351.

1.     The report was introduced by the Customer Experienced and Relationship Manager, Ms Pascale Blackburn-Clarke, who highlighted the key points to Members.

2.     In answer to Member comments and questions, the following was said:

        a)     Ms Blackburn-Clarke referred Members to Appendix A which contained the details of the services that received complaints.  It was confirmed that the number of complaints were relatively low, in comparison to the number of residents served in Kent, by way of example; for Adult Social Care, the level of complaints equated to approximately 1% of Kent Residents who used the service.  The most appropriate comparator for complaints was the Ombudsman, who had started to benchmark Councils against population sizes, given that Kent was the largest council in the UK, this was helpful.

        b)     Complements had been provided about many services and Ms Blackburn-Clarke confirmed that a concentrated effort has been made to log all positive feedback.

        c)     Complainants could still go to the Ombudsman and challenge how the outcome of a decision was reached, however it was pointed out to Members that officers managing complaints revert to the individual to explain how and why policy decisions were made. 

        d)     Ms Blackburn-Clarke confirmed that workload was problematic which effected the turnaround of dealing with complaints and a backlog had existed for a number of years in particular areas of the Council, however this was now starting to reduce.

        e)     It was confirmed that Quality of Service was being reviewed to explore whether the topic could be broken down further when reporting, in order to make it more useful in terms of lessons learned. Complaints tended to be individual, although it was possible to deal with numerous complaints about the same issue and therefore trends could be reflected for learning purposes.

        f)      A sign off delay (referenced in the report on page 50) related to the time taken by a Head of Service or Asssistant Director to review a complaint response.  Whilst this delay could be grouped within workload, it was set apart because officers wanted to see whether the delay in response was within the service or from senior management. 

        g)     Mr Watts confirmed that he was content to bring a report back to Committee which covered employment increase and level of staff for the period of March 2024 to March 2025.

        h)     The concerns raised by the Ombudsman were recognised and acknowledged.  It was explained to Members that the delays and instances of noncompliance predominately stemmed from significant backlogs within the service. This backlog impacted on the service’s ability to meet agreed timescales, even for Ombudsman cases.  Substantial improvements had been made to service delivery to reduce volume of complaints; the changes have allowed officers more time to complete their core work and response to new complaints.

        i)      Mr Watts confirmed that issues around complaint handling was an area of focus during the past financial year.  He confirmed that, whilst there were recognised pressures and resources issues in the areas responding, it continued to  ...  view the full minutes text for item 352.

1.     The report was presented by the Interim Head of Counter Fraud, Mr James Flannery.  Mr Flannery highlighted the following key points for Members:

        a)     Mr Flannery highlighted a change in terminology to Members; where active recovery of losses was identified, these would now be reported as savings within the report.

        b)     System changes to the case management system had been implemented to differentiate between the figures of what was crime and what was error.  Further clarity would be provided in future reports.

        c)     The Council of Europe Group Against Corruption Evaluation of Anti-

                Corruption and the Promotion of Integrity at a Sub National Level had

                started, with the submission of evidence to the evaluators completed within the reporting period. A site visited is expected in January 2026 where the evaluators will engage with key stakeholders to assess KCC’s anti-corruption controls and how it promotes integrity. A summary of findings and recommendations would be reported back to the Committee.

        d)     Social Care data had been sent to the National Fraud Initiative; the outcome of the data match was awaited.

        e)     The peer review of the Counter Fraud team’s compliance with the

                Government Counter-Fraud Professional Standards has been completed with KCC Counter Fraud team found to be fully compliant with those standards.

2.     In answer to Member questions and comments, the following was said:

        a)     Mr Flannery explained that due to resource restriction, no further Enforcement Days would be scheduled until 2026.  It was confirmed that the team remained open to working with parking managers of any authority to assist in upskilling Civil Enforcement Officers to conduct proactive enforcement activity.  It was confirmed that video training was available for Enforcement Officers to assist in the initial stages.

        b)     Mr Watts confirmed that a Cyber Security update was being prepared for the Policy and Resources Cabinet Committee for March 2026.  A discussion would be held in see if a single core briefing could be provided.

        c)     A review of services provided to Kent Maintain Schools was being conducted to compare what services were being provided to academies.  This work involved issuing alerts and liaising with school finance officers and the senior leadership forums, to highlight the dangers of spear phishing and cyber security awareness.

        d)     Mr Flannery confirmed that a business case was currently being submitted as part of the medium-term financial planning process and he would be happy to discuss details with the relevant Cabinet Member, if required.  

        e)     It was confirmed that, whilst the report highlighted where there was good practice, Members were reminded that on street parking monitoring was delegated to the District Authorities to complete.  As the parking agreement between KCC and the District Authorities does not cover Blue Badge enforcement, encouragement was given to the relevant portfolio holders of the various district authorities to try put high emphasis on Blue Badge enforcement within their parking teams.

        f)      Since the Head of Internal Audit and Counter Fraud had left KCC, the current interim arrangements within the team continued  ...  view the full minutes text for item 353.

1.     The report was presented by Governance Advisor, Ms Katy Reynolds.  Ms Reynolds highlighted the following key points to Members:

        a)     The paper formed part of the ongoing discussion regarding the role and purpose of Governance and Audit Committee as a whole and specifically in relation to oversight of governance, risk and control.

        b)     The main issues in the case studies (as set out in the paper) were drawn to Member’s attention as they had resulted in a decision to intervene. Many of the areas related to areas where the Committee had oversight of at KCC.

        c)     The report came ahead of the scheduled training due to be delivered by Beth Evans for week commencing the 1 December 2025.  This would consider the learning opportunities which flowed from the interventions and how they could have been avoided.

2.     In answer to Member questions, the following was said:

        a)     A Member commented that within the case studies featured  in the paper, there were several situations which involved tier one authorities and drew Committee Members’ attention to the Council’s current financial situation and potential consequences.

        b)     Mr Betts confirmed that the Quarter 2 Monitoring Report was a public document and had been reported to Cabinet Committees.  The Quarter 3 report was due for similar submission in January 2026 and the most recent and up to date information on the Safety Valve Agreement would be contained in this.  The broader issue of SEND deficits was a wider issue which needed to be addressed collectively across Central and Local Government.  The deficit was not included on the balance sheet and before a response could be provided in relation to the financial position of the Authority, officers had to wait to see what action Central Government would take.

        c)     A Member indicated that, within the Q3 Monitoring report, the highest overspend in Adult Social Care and the Safety Value dedicated to school grants should be specifically addressed.  The Member commented that he wanted it recorded via a recommendation that a request for Q3 and the points which could impact on the best value for duty were requested.

        d)     Mr Watts clarified that the Member requested assurance that when the Q3 report was delivered it specifically addressed the issues of concern and in turn, the Committee would consider the best value implications of this. Mr Watts highlighted to Members that the Scrutiny Committee had previous considered the Q2 Monitoring Report at a recent meeting and therefore it was important that Committee did not spend time considering the same reports and items.

        e)     A Member commented that clear sight of the issues with overspend, and the measures outlined by the previous Member were required and commented that this suggestion had his support.

        f)      An independent Member of the Committee commented that, in order to be able to support and help the Committee, it was important to look forward and be able to give guidance to the organisation which gave benefit of joint experience.

        g)     It was proposed,  ...  view the full minutes text for item 354.