Agenda item

The Chairman and Committee Members welcomed and introduced themselves to Lindsay Jardine and her colleague Mark Easton, Chief Officer for KATO to the meeting.  Ms Jardine provided notes to the questions forwarded to her in preparation for the meeting.

 

Q – How do you fit in with the secondary school educators? And how can you influence young people and are you finding your influences too late in the process or are you ok with it because you are asked to come in at an earlier stage?

A – Mark Easton introduced himself as the Chief Officer and Treasurer of KATO. He also managed the skills part of community learning and skills, which was Key training and traditional Adult Education.  Ms Jardine introduced herself as the Network Manager for KATO supporting 60 training providers, including 6 FE colleges and supporting their work based learning agenda acting as a conduit for the schools funding agencies, YPLA, AELP, KCC and Medway Council and sharing information on both sides.

 

Q – A tutor in a FE college advised that he was still waiting for assignments from last year from students. They were receiving the best practical and written advice but the tutor felt that he was getting nothing back. The students were not engaged.  Are there real issues in Further Education (FE), funding and people not finishing courses?

A – There were a plethora of offers available to young people from the private public and independent FE sectors.  The FE landscape was quite traditional and from experience in talking to learners, the FE sector was less flexible than perhaps the independent providers.  There were cases where young people come out of secondary education at level 2 academic standard then went onto  a classroom based vocational course eg BTEC and had to commence that course at a level 1 position.  There would be a question on the skill base that young person had so would commence at a rudimentary level.

 

Q – A young person could switch on or off at this point if you get it wrong?

A – It depended on giving them an expectation, stretch and aspiration.  They were more likely to be engaged and retained and achieve.

 

The Chairman commented that the tutors view was that there was a problem with the classroom based learning, that it seemed less about the industry.

A – There was a case for classroom based activity especially for those who had been disengaged with secondary education and did not academically achieve at school.  A lot did not feel that they fitted into the academic structure whether that was because of their home environment or something else.  Each young person needed to have a position of their own to be taken account of when they were initially engaged in any form of training or education.

 

Q – Was anyone doing psychometric testing on the young people?

A – Not in the purest sense but for those coming onto a work based programme there was an in-depth initial assessment that took account of their personal position, expectations, aspirations, financial position, learning styles and academic abilities.  KATO could signpost them to a provision at the right time.  An initial assessment for a NEET would be slightly different.  KATO had to gauge their emotional intelligence and their communication skills.  For an apprentice, generally they were more developed and able to communicate in the work place and would have better literacy and numeracy skills because they had to be at a certain level to get on the course.

 

Q – The Chairman advised that an employee at the Job Centre for 30 years was concerned by the number of NEETs.  She said that when they ran a Job Centre, in the past, she and her colleagues would be able to sort job placements out for n individual as they would know all of the local companies and would be able to approach them saying that they had someone you suitable and the company would trust their judgement.  The modern day reality was that anyone sent to an interview from the Job Centre the employer was switched off.  KATO seem to be picking up NEETs in a smarter way because if they had no money the last thing they need was a job.  They need to have their benefits sorted out and once they know where they stood they would be in a better place to move forward.

 

Ms Jardine advised that Job Centres only engaged with 18+ year olds.  She was talking about 16 and 17 year olds as well, that was the NEET’s cohort, therefore were talking about the Connexions Service and the IAG that they received through the Connexion Service and how difficult is was for them with the current youth unemployment and 19 to 24 + year olds graduates coming out unable to be placed in employment as oppose to the NEET cohort who may not have 4 GCSEs at grade C and above.

 

Q - Which training providers work in partnership with KATO, and what services does it offer?

A – KATO is a membership of 60 training providers and had been in existence for 28 years.  KATO’s role was to share information amongst training providers from the skills funding Agency, YPLA, and various agencies that it worked with to the Association of Learning Providers, ALP.  KATO represented the training providers at various strategic Forums throughout the county.  KATO sat on NEET groups such as Careers education, information, advice and guidance (CEIAG) to influence and have a voice on what work base learning was on offer for 14+ year olds and interpret and communicate national and regional policy to the network and help to influence that policy.  KATO also supported the training providers to work in partnership with the changes in funding that had recently happened.  KATO promoted apprenticeships, particularly, to employers and to young people.

 

Q- How does KATO do that?

A – Through various means.  Ms Jardine said that she had just come from the launch of the 100 in 100 Campaign, which had 78 employees present with 100 attendees, promoting the benefits of taking on apprentices and trying to make it an easy process.   She felt that the Kent Apprenticeship Strategy was working well in Kent.  KATO also provided a collective voice on government policy.  It fed into more major networks such as the Association of Employer and Learning Providers (AELP).  Ms Jardine gave an example of how KATO was able to influence as follows: -

·  There were 5 Networks in the South East Region they all worked together.  There had been issues with Foundation Learning with the demise of e2e changing into Foundation Learning there were real gaps with what was left.  Mr Easton added that it was about bringing young people closer to the local labour market.  Under e2e, KATO was allowed to and funded for placing and arranging work experience placements with employers that would allow for the progression to an apprenticeship when the basic skills came into being.  Foundation Learning did not afford that because you could only be paid against guided learning hours, which was face to face delivery ie classroom based activity.  KATO also influence a change from the YPLA to allow greater flexibility to the funding so that KATO could get weekly funding instead of the Guided Learning Hours (GLH) funding for an increased population of learners.

 

Q - Have you had quick shut downs of funding without warning?

A – Only the EMA.  The effects of that would not be felt until September as there had been an increase in participation post year 11 and an increased application to the Further Education.

 

Q – What was the impact in the introduction of the EMA?

A – This would be a bell shaped graph especially for those in financial hardship.  There was a gap with no funding available.  No introduction into the bursary system not until the next academic year.  There were limited funds allocated to that number of students who would benefit

Q – Which group would not get help?  Would that group suit attending a college near to where they lived and probably chose the wrong course?

A – Potentially, anecdotally yes – accessibility, affordability may be the deciding factor.

 

Q - If you had 100 young people that went through your system what percentage were reaching their full potential?  How many were doing a job and were reasonably happy?

A – Referring to NEETs in foundation learning approximately 30% were satisfied.  This varied as some had aspiration and would travel a good extent.  Some with lower aspirations and confidence in themselves would accept the situation and settle with.

Therefore 1:3 were satisfied with their lot.

 

Q – What can KCC do to help or enhance the provision of apprenticeships?

A – There was a great deal of collaboration between KCC and KATO already.  The target figures for apprenticeships had already been reached this year in period 9.  We are waiting for a breakdown on the impact of the work with employers that KATO had been doing had made in certain districts.  KATO had worked in Canterbury, Swale and West Kent.  It was better working in districts as KATO was able to target certain groups, the authorities and the federation of small businesses and getting media publicity on board.

 

KCC can continue with the support and raising awareness on apprenticeships and to be a leading light to employers by increasing opportunities within the authority.

Q - What sort of apprenticeship are you talking about, bricklaying

A – A wide range of apprenticeships such as business administration and accountancy, groundwork and distribution warehousing.

 

Q – What does the apprenticeship recruitment process involve?  What are the challenges for the employer and the employee? How can it be improved?

A – For the employer it was a confusing process.  KATO worked closely with the National Apprenticeship Service although the support they were able to offer was reduced because of the cuts in their funding.  The Association was only dealing with large businesses those with over 250 employees.

The Chairman advised that the Committee had spoken with the NSA and they advised that they had to use satellite to reach the Small and Medium Employers (SME).   There were 85% SME businesses in Kent.

KATO felt that it had it right in Kent and that was why it was seeing their numbers go up.

 

Q – How are the apprenticeships monitored and controlled?  If company A offers training to an apprentice in a certain skill on completion of that apprenticeship what guarantee had company B got that the training in the apprenticeship was up to the standard?

A – An apprenticeship was organised in a triangle with the employer, learner and the training provider.  All the rewards are the same covering literacy, numeracy and technical certificate.  They were nationally recognised.

 

Q – What other areas do you work on?  Are there things KCC was not effective on, was KCC wasting money?

A – KATO worked closely with Wayne GoughInterim County Manager   (Supporting Independence Programme).  KCC could apply influence in information advice and guidance (IAG).  KATO found resistance in some secondary education in IAG in the alternative curriculum.  They may be A* students but would university be best or a higher apprenticeship suit them better.  Influencing in secondary education would be more difficult especially with the reduction of funds to Connexions.  Funding did not follow the learner it stayed with the establishment.

 

Q – Referring to the September guarantee and the fact that many students do not push through the apprenticeship route because they had to wait until July to know about the September guarantee.  Was there anything that could be done?

A – Within the Kent Apprenticeship Strategy, KATO was looking to encourage some employers to make that commitment, to have an offer of apprenticeship opportunities for the appropriate time or when young people were leaving school.  It was a big ask but this was in the Strategy.

 

 

 

Q - Are there areas where KCC was not being effective?

A – Other areas would be, to identify unknown NEETs which were the hardest to reach and to engage.

They were the grey kids probably, middleclass and could be disaffected. This could be a matter of earlier intervention. There were 2500 known NEETs in Kent.

 

Q – What age should this kick in?

A – Years 8 and 9 steer options to preferred career pathway.

 

Q – Do you pick up those who trained and have a degree?

A – Apprenticeship – They had to be employed otherwise there is no funding.  A single adult with schools budget it was more difficult for them to provide provision for those with degrees.

 

Q – What can be done to ensure impartial advice is given as the school could lose the higher achievers to work based learning.  We have the September Guarantee for children to move to 6^th form look on line to get a guarantee place.  Not easy to get apprenticeship have to wait until August and September, where as their friends may have got a place in college.  Some school give good advice/guidance.  Grammar school tend to give guidance to universities and further education.

 

Q - Lydia the work experience student present at the meeting was asked what type of advice  she was given

A – I was given an appointment in Year 10 at the Careers Office.  At that age I did not  have a  clue of what I wanted to do.  Connexions came to our school they asked me what exams I was doing.  I felt that it was the wrong age no one knew what they wanted to do. 

Q – Where you directed to websites?

A - Year 12 I had a clearer view with the GCSEs I was taking and was just directed to A levels, no one mentioned apprenticeships.

 

Q – Do you engage with the forces?

A – KATO runs and evening with the forces and run foundation learning with full and open advice. We have new police recruits who come in and engage with young people.

 

The Chairman suggested that KATO was in the middle fully stretched trying to cover all the gaps.

Ms Jardine advised that 14, 15 and 16 year olds were not being prepared for the work market.  They did not have the employability skills required.  KATO were running a survey on 3000 employers at present in Swale looking at this issue.  There would be an interim report by October.

*Ms Jardine agreed to forward a copy of the interim report to the Committee

 

Q – Are there any initiatives that you have come across externally, locally or in Europe that would be worth looking at?

A – KATO had recently had a couple of Age Grants that were about incentivising the employer to take on apprentices.  The tipping point was the national minimum wage was £2.50 per hour about £5 ½ k per year.  Some SME can not stretch that far.  If they had an incentive of £1500 the employer could then afford to take on one apprentice.  Swale Borough Council was going to support this project that we ran and it worked extremely well by incentivising employers.  The Age Grant worked well and would ask KCC to consider.

 

Q – If KCC had a pot of money that would directly equate to jobs?

A – Yes.

 

Q – You said that Swale were doing this, are you talking to any other boroughs?

A – Ms Jardine advised that Shepway were thinking about this at the moment but I do not have enough details about that.  Medway Council had already looked at it and were planning to launch next month.  There was nothing in Maidstone.

 

Q - What are the difficulties for your providers in facilitating the right training and the right employment?

A – The restriction on funding on pre apprenticeships programmes, funding access to apprenticeships.  Some young people are not work ready and not in a position to move straight into an apprenticeship a bridging programme that is delivered by an external provider from schools.  Ms Jardine felt that school could not do that job effectively.  Mr Easton. This would be 10,000 pre apprenticeships.  In England this would be 13.4% of the NEET population that that would fund which was not nearly enough to bridge the gap and allow the transition.

 

*Ms Jardine agreed to forward a leaflet on KATO to the Committee.

 

The Chairman and Committee thanked Ms Jardine and Mr Easton for attending the meeting.