Agenda item

Please introduce yourself and outline the roles and responsibilities that your post involves.

I am the Director of Operations at KATO, which is a network of training providers across Kent and Medway which includes providers from 6 FE colleges. 30of our training providers deliver Apprenticeships.  KATO seeks to support providers and works with the National Apprenticeships Service (NAS), Skills Funding Agency, Local Authorities, Education Funding Agency, Chambers of Commerce, the Federation of Small Businesses, JobCentre Plus and schools.  KATO provides a voice for providers to influence change at local, regional and national levels.  KATO’s main focus is working to support the Apprenticeship Agenda of national government, reduce NEET and support growth and a skilled work force in Kent.

 

It’s been very useful to hear what previous speakers in this session have said.  I have taken some good notes!  To respond to points made by Peter Hobbs: firstly, the key point of the reports by the Holt review, Heseltine and Richard is that young people need to have employability skills and good quality information, advice and guidance (IAG), and secondly, Peter seems to be saying that training providers are too well-rewarded.  Training providers don’t get as much funding as Peter indicated – it’s about £3,000 to £4,000 per 16–18-year-old and £1,500 to £2,000 per 19-year-old. If you used the example of an Apprenticeship in Business Admin or Customer Services, of course, the other end of the scale for engineering is substantially higher but the programme takes considerably longer.

 

While employers don’t seem to get much obvious financial reward, they do gain a young person who can benefit their organisation and business and become a valued member of staff and potential manager of the future.  A good Apprenticeship provider will work with an employer to get a placement right to meet the employer’s need.  There are three types of Apprenticeships – intermediate, advanced and higher, which will link to and lead to professional qualifications.  Many people do not recognise this range, so we need to emphasise this and promote it more effectively.

 

Apprenticeships for 16-18 year olds must last for a minimum of a year, but in many cases for longer periods of up to four years.  It is a considerable commitment for any employer to take on, and therefore it is always encouraged that employers sustain the individual in employment afterwards.

 

Peter Davies (NAS) - Funding depends on the age group of the Apprentice.  I can supply the Committee with some figures.

 

We do need to be clear of the figures involved.  This would be a good question to ask the Skills Funding Agency.

 

Peter Davies (NAS) - You’d need to find a global figure.

 

KATO’s network is smaller, so we will give the select Committee some figures as well.

 

The Select Committee would need to be able to see the costs of Apprenticeships against the effectiveness of them.  The economics of the picture are important – eg the increased earning potential that someone will have from starting in a good Apprenticeship, the tax benefits the country will get from this, etc.

 

Kent is in an unusual position as it is unique for a local authority to work so closely with the NAS.  It seems to be promoting a ‘one stop shop’, which is something KATO definitely isn’t. We don’t take referrals for Apprenticeships as others have this role.  Our role is to support training providers.  We like to keep our role simple and make good links to others with different roles.

 

Are you happy with the way those partnerships work?

We are getting there, as employers are getting a clearer message about whom to speak to.  Some young people also need a clearer message.  13- and 14-year olds need to know that Apprenticeships are a real alternative to other options they hear about for when they are 16.

 

How could this be achieved?

KATO and NAS already work very closely and have a joined up approach and share information services, and we could use this more. KATO delivers the Apprenticeship Information Ambassador Service which goes into schools, for assemblies, careers evenings, etc. The Ambassadors are fully trained to offer information on Apprenticeships and offer an impartial service which is vital in these times of RPA and reduced CEIAG. SEE WEBSITE: http://www.apprenticeshipinformationambassador.co.uk/

 

The Select Committee needs to speak to employers and Apprentices and ask each ‘how is it for you?’  If we do this, what sort of things do you think they will say?

I think they would say that there is too much information around about Apprenticeships, eg if you Google the word ‘Apprenticeships’. Finding your way through it is a minefield and can be very confusing. If an employer is interested in taking on an Apprentice and seeks information to help them decide, they want to see a clear range of options, but there are so many variables that it is difficult to choose what to do.  Incentive grants can be confusing.

 

Information, advice and guidance (IAG) is clearly an issue for employers as well as for young people.

Yes, it is.

 

Can you give us some examples of good models?

There are three components to an Apprenticeship: the employer, the employee/learner and the training provider.  The training provider liaises with the employer to see what they want.  They will put together a job description and talk about how learning will be delivered (ie either on the job or outside the workplace) and what suits the employer (eg day release, etc). The training provider then helps to sift applicants for the placement, via a matching service.  It should all be as simple as possible!

 

I have had a bad experience of taking on Apprentices in the past, but maybe it’s just me.  It’s good to know clearly what should happen around setting up an Apprenticeship.

We are not looking at Apprenticeships to be a short-term solution or a stop-gap for a young person who might then go on to be NEET (not in education, employment or training).  84 – 90% of Apprentices stay in employment once they are there. I can send the Select Committee some statistics for this.

 

Yes please, for Kent providers.

 

37% of Kent’s Apprenticeships are provided by local providers, and we seek to get a range and spread of provision.

 

Can you tell us how training is financed?  I was involved in youth training in the 1990s and I remember that there were various types and sources of funding for that.

A training provider receives money once they have placed a young person.  They then get a regular monthly on programme payment throughout the Apprenticeship and an achievement payment at the end.

 

So is there just one standard funding model or does it vary?

It is dependant on the sector/apprenticeship/framework/level of Apprenticeship.  It is also dependant on the age of the Apprentice, the size of the business etc.  There are a considerable number of factors to take into account.

 

What is or will be the outcome of raising the participation age (RPA)?

We haven’t yet seen the impact in Kent.  Some schools are promoting the RPA as being a way of staying on in school or college.  There is a misconception that the RPA is just about raising the school leaving age.  For example, in Year 11, a student would be looking at staying on in sixth form or taking up a place at an FE college and would apply for a place in July under the ‘September guarantee’ mechanism.  It is difficult to get these young people to consider applying for Apprenticeships at that time and we don’t know what vacancies are available to offer them and so can’t give them firm information on which to base a choice.  The timing of the academic year and Apprenticeships set-up is awkward and does not help the Apprenticeships agenda.  But the KCC can help to address the information issue.

 

How could the KCC help with this?

Via the website, etc. Ofsted now looks at students’ destinations as part of a school’s inspection – eg Apprenticeships, 16+ study, NEET - but there is a debate about how these outcomes should best be measured.

 

If a company has a vacancy which is suitable for an Apprentice, there needs to be a mechanism to take up the opportunity and fill it quickly.  Are there gaps that aren’t being filled?

We are seeking the best way in which to engage employers to predict in July what vacancies they will have, so Apprenticeships can be part of a student’s choices at the end of Year 11.  We have Ambassadors for the Apprenticeships programme who can show young people how to use the information available, and a vacancy matching process in which young people would register for an Apprenticeship vacancy early in the year.  This will allow them to include an Apprenticeship as a definite, confident option when they come to choose in July. This matching process, however, can be complex and perhaps not as easy to use as it could be.  We are doing some work with NAS and working on this. KATO also offer training to Job Centres to give them guidance on how best to present and deliver IAG.

 

How often does the current process fail to fill a vacancy for an Apprentice?

I could find out this information and let the Select Committee know.  KATO is doing a piece of work on young people who are NEET, to look at what they apply for and why they are unsuccessful.  It may be that they are applying for things which are not appropriate for their skill level, and we could look at giving them some advice. We will look at the vacancy service which is run by the NAS and possibly make recommendations on how to improve it.

 

I have just logged on to the NAS site on my i.phone to do a test search for Apprenticeship vacancies in the building industry, and it gave me other job titles which are unrelated, so the keyword search doesn’t seem to work well.

 

The Richard review seems to say that Apprenticeship applicants must have Level 2 in English and maths.  What if they can’t achieve this level? Are they excluded from being able to apply?

Peter Davies (NAS) – The requirement is for them to achieve Level 2 in English and maths by the end of their Apprenticeship; it isn’t an entry requirement.  Part of the training in the Apprenticeship placement would aim to build up their skills if they are lacking in these areas and help them to achieve Level 2 by the end. Their progress can be tested during the length of the Apprenticeship.

 

Employers would need to specify what qualifications they require an applicant to have to take on the job role, ie what entry requirements they have, and they would be supported in identifying this level by the training provider. 

 

Who is training the 10,000 Apprentices currently in Kent?

37% of them are being trained by KATO members, and the other 63% by national providers, although some of these trainers might overlap between the two – eg a Kent branch of a national provider might be a KATO member. All training providers are vetted and monitored by the Skills Funding Agency and Ofsted, to ensure quality. 

 

Peter Davies (NAS) – The issue of quality is in the spotlight at the NAS.

 

Kent seems to have done well so far, but is this progress sustainable?

Quality is a key priority on everyone’s list, and training providers have to delivery good quality to get their payments.  I am confident that the quality of Apprenticeships continues to rise.  Every training provider is subject to Ofsted inspection and assessment.

 

Is training provided in-house by a large employer – eg a supermarket – subject to Ofsted?

Anyone who receives funding from the Skills Funding Agency (ie public money) will be subject to Ofsted inspections.  If the supermarket funds its own training and does not use public money, it won’t be.

 

Peter Davies (NAS) – The quality regime is very strict; if a training provider falls short they have to improve or leave. If the funding of the Apprenticeship placement is complex, identifying who accepts the penalty for poor training will also be complex, but usually it is the training provider who takes the hit for any shortcomings in quality.  Contract management needs to be very strict around this issue.

 

Can you send the Select Committee some more information about how the quality of training is monitored?

Yes.

 

The Select Committee has heard previously that the Chambers of Commerce group together to get funding from the Skills Funding Agency.

A provider needs to have a minimum contract level of £500,000 to deliver Apprenticeships as a lead.

 

There are some models of training which work well and are effective, which the Select Committee might want to look into.  These are:-

ATA – the Apprenticeships Training Agency;

SEATC – the South East Apprentice Training Company, which was set up by partners working with the KCC.

 

What is the minimum size that larger companies need to achieve to be able to fund and deliver their own Apprenticeships training programme?

They would have to go through due diligence with the SFA and be able to deliver a contract over and above the value of £500,000.