Agenda item

FINAL version

1.       Themes and questions had been forwarded in advance to Mr Winter in preparation for the meeting.

 

2.       The Chairman and Select Committee welcomed Mr Winter to the meeting and explained the scope of the Select Committee.

 

3.       The Chairman invited Mr Winter to give a brief introduction on his role and explain the services.

 

4.       Mr Winter explained that he had achieved an HND undertaking a sandwich course (effectively a higher apprenticeship) and later in his career qualified as an Accountant. He had always worked in industry.  He raised the following points on the Wire Belt Company Limited:

 

·        Wire Belt Company exported 70% of its output.

·        Wire Belt Company broke into Germany 12 years ago by buying a German company that was failing.  Mr Winter became Managing Director at the time but now a young employee had taken over that role.  There were 34 full time employees based in Germany.

·        In Sittingbourne there were 65 employees; 7 apprentices, (3 mechanical engineers studying for BTEC, 2 welder fabricators studying City and Guilds and 2 office administration / customer service undertaking NVQ level 3.

 

5.       In reply to a question, Mr Winter advised that the education system was different in Germany.  The pupils remained in school until they were qualified but spending a significant amount of time undertaking work experience.

 

6.       Q - What drives you to have apprentices?

7.       Mr Winter advised that employees with good quality skills were being poached from his company so he put policies in place for Wire Belt to grow.  He quickly understood that the company could use apprenticeships strategically.  An apprentice would stay with the company to gain a level 3 and above qualification.  Wire Belt paid above average to those advance apprentices.  45% of the positions at level 3 and above within Wire Belt Company are held by former apprentices or other trainees who joined directly from full time education.  These were not all at shop floor level.  There are positions held in marketing, bought ledger accounting and IT all of whom have joined the company from school.

 

8.       Q- How has funding changed over the years?

9.       Mr Winter advised that more and more funding had been pushed onto  companies’ shoulders.  Wire Belt Company, over time, was investing more, which he considered was acceptable, but generally, as all companies are exposed to more and more cost, it will restrict training activity.

 

10.  Q- How do you recruit?

11.  Mr Winter advised that there were horror stories but did not want to elaborate but said that there were bad choices made in the past.  The system for taking on apprentices has been developed over 10 years.  Until recently they have offered work experience for 2 weeks pre 16 years fitting in with the schools curriculum and this has guided the right people into manufacturing.  The 2 weeks of work experience is treated as an extended interview where their numeracy and soft skills such as getting to work on time etc could be observed,  

 

12.  Q- How do you build your relationship with the schools?

13.  Mr Winter explained that in many schools manufacturing and engineering has been seen as dirty and unpromising.  Mr Winter volunteered to be a Junior School Governor and offered tours of the company to 10 year olds to improve their understanding of Manufacturing and Engineering as a career. Unfortunately there now does not seem to be enough time in the school curriculum.   He considered that a few more volunteers as Governors from businesses would be welcome.  Representatives from Wire Belt also attended skills events and careers days at schools.

 

14.  Q- If KCC ran an award scheme would that have an impact?

15.  Mr Winter felt that this would be a way to encourage students to think about apprenticeships as a practical route to work, as this would be multifaceted.  An award would also fit in and would be welcomed particularly if it was work area specific, he advised that NAS did an award and so did KEiBA (Apprenticeship of the Year) and the KCC award could be linked in too.

 

16.  Mr Winter suggested that the challenges would be with administration relating to voluntary work experience post 16 years.  Most schools now work to those rules.  Wire Belt has recently faced some difficulty in finding youngsters pre 16 years to fill the work experience places.  Wire Belt had to organise the work experience for one pupil, who presented well, during the school holidays, which they were willing to do.  In office administration, an Advanced Apprentice position for a 16 year old had remained unfilled for a year. When a suitable apprentice had been employed, Mr Winter advised that he had asked the applicant if she had considered staying on at school. She explained that indeed the Head teacher had tried to keep her at school. Mr Winter explained that one of the reasons given for staying on was that an Apprenticeship could not be offered at level 3 without completing level 2 first. Thus creating doubt in the mind of the student that they will progress to Level 3.

 

17.  Q- Would the RPA make this worse?

18.  Mr Winter considered that it would, as schools will attempt to retain the more able pupils (those who are capable of achieving Level 3).  Wire Belt needed to sustain its business and it could become difficult to get the right quality of student able to achieve the higher level of qualification. He said that he was nervous about this and that he had been speaking with theEngineering Employers Federation on the importance of advanced apprenticeships being started at the age of 16. The company has had to deal with students that had to do remedial maths and by the time in their training that the shortcoming reveals itself it is unsatisfactory to start again with someone new.  There had been good support from colleges and training providers for this.  Often the issue showed up in college work too and it is often the college that alerts the Company to the problem.

 

19.  Q- The majority of companies in Kent are SMEs.   What can KCC do to encourage them to take apprentices?

20.  Mr Winter considered that there were companies that believed in developing strong relationships to take on apprenticeships and where it exists, this should be done at the lowest level. Where engagement is needed this could be provided by the traditional Education Business Partnership (EBP) approach as their effectiveness was at a high level. They drew together schools and employers. Current funding for the EBP and CXK is a major issue, which results in many schools being responsible for work experience and careers guidance. Mr Winter holds the opinion that many schools do not undertake this task well and advised that his son had to arrange his own work experience. 

 

21.  In reply to a question regarding the use of IT within Wire Belt, Mr Winter advised that IT was important.  Wire Belt’s IT technician had been with the company for 15 years, since leaving school. [Mr Winter suggested that parents would have a strong influence in a child going on to an apprenticeship].  He considered that having good quality software was vital.  He added that his contact with his IT technician was 24 hours a day when it crashed.

 

22.  Mr Winter went on to add that a few years ago, local employers attempted to work together to provide apprenticeships in less popular disciplines. For example, Wire Belt had a problem with employing a maintenance engineer in the past but finding the means to work with other companies to provide a full range of training proved difficult and time consuming. If establishing this type of scheme is considered, and then it’s value could be proved through a pilot.  He advised that the proposal would be at its best training into overhead positions such as maintenance.

 

 

23.  Q- Across the county should all colleges offer generic courses to level 2 and specialise in one area at an advance level.

24.  Mr Winter said he thought that was how he thought it worked.  In relation to City and Guilds there was a situation where a student could not complete his last year in North Kent because there was insufficient demand for the course so he was sent to Tunbridge Wells.  For three years, Wire Belt had a member of staff doing a Mechanical Engineering Degree who the company sent to High Wickham because there was nowhere else doing the relevant qualification in Kent.  Mr Winter suggested that it would be helpful if there were improved coordination and communication perhaps by constructing a matrix mapped out to see where the gaps are.

 

25.  Q- Does the introduction of high school leavers into higher-level qualifications leave a gap?

26.  Mr Winter said that this might leave a gap for Wire Belt.  The depth of level 3 customer service was very good.  He advised that through the Graduates Service (Grads Kent), Wire Belt has recruited two interns, one gained a permanent job with Wire Belt and the other left to gain a highly paid job elsewhere but then returned because he felt that he was not qualified enough.  He was now doing a Masters degree.  It was hoped that he would remain with the company.

 

27.  Mr Winter predicted that there was an issue with graduates becoming NEETs due to their lack of contact with employers whilst studying. 

 

28.  Mr Winter viewed that there was potential for duplication of effort in promoting apprenticeships between KCC, Service Deliverers, Skills Colleges and HE.  Mr Winter also felt that the training sector often dragged their feet and wasted time on vast amounts of (duplicated) surveys. 

 

29.  Mr Winter considered that there needed to be a way of enthusing students and employers working together.  FE and HE also needed to accept the importance of partnering with employers in both promoting the Manufacturing and Engineering sector and Course composition.

 

30.  The Chairman suggested that the Select Committee needed to look at those relationships. 

 

31.  Q- Do you have any further recommendations the Select Committee ought to consider?

32.  Mr Winter suggested the following:

Ø      KCC was in a unique position to influence the schools over work experience and career guidance helping find a focus for the youngsters. 

Ø      Skills and careers fairs seemed to be held when students had already chosen their options - leaving school or often studying for A levels in the wrong subjects.

Ø      Pupils need to be work ready – More needed to be done on the soft skills eg getting up on time to go to earn a living (Work experience).

Ø      Pre primary school   - Need to start thinking about what they want to do.  By the time the child graduated from primary school to secondary school they should know what they want to do in the future.  If they have something in mind that can lead onto their goals.

Ø      Job Centre Plus – There were issues with unemployed being offered apprenticeships the coordination of the efforts in Kent being done by KCC.  Mr Winter mentioned an issue with Kent Apprenticeships where the 0800 number was intended to be a single point of contact but this may no longer be the case.

Ø      Ensuring that skills planning are an element of the outcome of any intervention undertaken by organisations such as High Growth Kent  or Growth Accelerator.

Ø      Investors in People (IIP) provided an excellent catalyst for skills planning but numbers registered for IIP is falling as a result of the dropping of the subsidy for fees and introduction of chargeable services.

Ø      Kent Choices 4 U Live which is aimed at school students and young adults could invite employers too.

 

33.  Q- Are there barriers getting into apprenticeships?

34.  The sectors with vacancies are those with less appeal – such as manufacturing and engineering, land based, health etc. These sectors especially need to set out the career possibilities and advantages.  Land base is a big area with a large population of overseas agricultural workers who are now being promoted into management positions.  It is thought that there are unfilled places for apprentices at Hadlow.  Mr Winter considered that even today there is still an advantage in parents being involved in career selection. 

 

35.  He said that he was pleased with Bloodhound Education project, which is shortly coming to Swale and will help promote the choice of STEM subjects to students. The very important contribution of KCC to this initiative was acknowledged.

 

36.  Mr Winter advised that he visited schools when possible.  He also attended events such as Kent 2020, which he did last year when he was asked to do a presentation promoting apprenticeships.  He was proud that Mr Whiting and Mr Cubitt had recently visited Wire Belt and he had asked all 7 of his apprentices to undertake the guided tour explaining the area that they worked in before handing on to the next. Each apprentice undertook his or her task very well and with great enthusiasm.

 

37.  The Chairman and Select Committee Members thanked Mr Winter for attending the meeting.

 

 

Some parts of Mr Winter’s text have been expanded to give further information which could not be covered during the interview.