Agenda item

Please introduce yourself and EBP.

EBP Kent is a company limited by guarantee and also a registered charity. It has been in practice for 22 years.

 

Can you tell us about Information, Advice and Guidance (IAG)?

IAG is a compulsory part of the offer for KS4 students (school years 10 to 13).  There is much work going on in the county.  It is not true, as some people believe, that nothing is available now that Connexions has ceased to operate.  Schools are very creative and resourceful in developing programmes to deliver IAG and create a vision for their students.

 

This morning, EBP was in a school in Westgate, at which the whole day was given over to IAG.  Representatives from 100 employers were in attendance, and by the end of the day, every student will have attended 4 workshops, covering all sectors, and spoken to 14 different employers.  The whole school staff is involved, which sends the message to students that their progression is very important and valued by the school. During the day, every Year 11 student (180) had a one-to-one interview with an employer to help them understand what an employer expects. We will give them whatever range of information they require. EBP’s work has not been damaged by the loss of blanket coverage; what is important is a detailed knowledge of Labour Market Information (LMI).  LMI brings many good opportunities but it can be a barricade to overcome, and IAG is the means by which this barricade can be overcome.

 

EBP has full contracts to deliver IAG in eight Kent schools.  One member of EBP’s staff can speak Makaton, so we are able to include the Royal School for the Deaf as one of our customers. We find that parents often have out-of-date information, but some interviews are done with parents present too.  From September, there will be some more IAG delivered directly from employers, which will further complement the work being done currently by schools, the EBP and employers. Delivery of good quality IAG needs visionary schools and committed employers and support of professional staff.

 

One employer has a £2m bid with the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS) to do IAG work, which is very exciting.

 

LMI is a blueprint of IAG.  LMI should not be a barricade to IAG but it is, in certain income sectors.

 

LMI indicates that the primary employers for East Kent and West Kent are different, ie in Thanet, a primary employer is the health and social care sector, while in West Kent it is an executive office job in London.  We need to open the doors to enable aspiration, not raise aspiration.

 

The Rotary Club where I am a member does mock interviews with students at schools in Thanet.  We see a lack of confidence and self-esteem in young people, which seems to be a failure of the education system.  This is worrying.  I think it is difficult to match young people with jobs via Apprenticeships.

Schools have young people for five hours every day, and they do a very good job at nurturing and supporting them.  Thanet is the most challenged area in Kent, and if young people there don’t have support they have a much bigger journey. You will find young people who lack confidence and self-esteem all over the county.

 

I am also involved in a NEETs programme in Herne Bay.  The help given to some young people is phenomenal.

 

Start of powerpoint presentation – slide showing range of programmes.

There is a great range of programmes. For example, there is a programme in which 20 lawyers go into schools for one day a week to read with the children. Some children have increased their reading age by one year in the first term of the programme.  Lawyers charge by the minute, so you can imagine how valuable their time is, but the confidence it has given the children is priceless, and a reading age of 11 is needed to do GCSE maths. The end game of all this is paid employment.

 

EBP’s scope of work seeks to support this range of programmes.  There are 80 programmes – some run by employers, some not.

 

Slide showing chart with ’soft skills’ down the side – literacy, numeracy, ICT, teamwork, communication skills, problem solving, etc.

 

It is a big step for schools to do something which is not defined by exam results.

 

The availability of Apprenticeships depends on where you are in Kent. The Select Committee asked me to comment on how it could help improve the quality and quantity of Apprenticeships in Kent.  We would seek to see all schools in the areas with really challenging LMI to have 10 Apprenticeships allocated to them each year. These Apprenticeships could be run in the same way as work experience is run now. This would be a chance to support young people and families in the right place to solve some of the County’s economic problems.  EBP can help improve the quality and geographical spread achieved, if only by a small amount. A small change can make a big improvement.  We would need to get employers lined up in the right place but we could do it.

 

When a student works with an employer for work experience, they are more likely to be taken on again later as an Apprentice.  Employers want and need the recruitment process to be as simple as possible, with minimal paperwork.

In my opinion, Work Experience is an essential pre-cursor to an apprenticeship - training for employability.

 

Apprenticeships are not suitable for all, but if a young person wastes their opportunity to be an Apprentice, their family will lose out. In areas in which the LMI ‘barricade’ is most evident, people traditionally have the concept of employment being lifelong, ‘from cradle to grave’, and this has not changed.

 

Some schools do not offer IAG to students and do not tell them about the opportunities for Apprenticeships.  How could this be addressed and solved?

Students would hear about Apprenticeships in Year 11.  Schools have a legal obligation to tell every child every option.  IAG must be impartial.  In EBP I have not come across any school that was doing nothing, nor a school deliberately not telling students about opportunities.

 

The Select Committee is seeing a varied picture; some provision is good and some is not. You have just told us that, overall, it’s better than we thought.

EBP only works with eight schools, so my experience is of a small sample. If you have asked students what IAG they have had, they are likely to have forgotten what they have had, so their answers will not always be reliable.  Some of them just don’t retain the information that they are given! To remember it better they need to have it in a different form, and it needs to be repeated at school, on a work experience placement, work-related experiences, visits, challenges, etc, so it sinks in.  To have talks from local businesses (see EBP’s Amazing People programme) would make the subject seem accessible and would show young people the local possibilities.  We need people to see the value of Apprenticeships in an area of high deprivation and their role in addressing NEETs and some social problems.

 

In disadvantaged areas (financially, and in terms of Ofsted/league tables) is it raising false expectations to advocate Apprenticeships?

I don’t see it like this.  A child is a future economic citizen of Kent.  League tables are based on results, not on progression.  This is where the orchestration of ten apprenticeships matched to each school would enable aspirations and expectations.

 

The Select Committee is seeing Ofsted next week.

From September, IAG will be part of Ofsted inspections, so schools will be scored on how well they deliver it.  Michael Gove has included destination data.

 

Slides showing the benefits of Apprenticeships to employers and young people

 

Slide showing- the benefits of Apprenticeships to young people

Respect is a big issue; young people seek respect and want to feel valued, and Apprenticeships give them a chance to have that respect and value.  Quality is still a bugbear.

 

Slide showing employer feedback

From EBP, four people each visit six employees every day in Kent.  One in six SMEs talks about Apprenticeships, and EBP records the feedback they give. Many Apprentices require good maths skills; jobs in electronics and engineering all involve maths.

 

Is there a mismatch and/or poor timing in terms of the September guarantee and setting up Apprenticeships?

We would seek instant take-up of Apprenticeship places when they become available. The timetable for taking up Apprenticeships does not match the academic year.  We need to fit around employers’ needs and timings. The raising of the participation age (RPA) is a time bomb ticking!  IAG should be woven in to raise students’ awareness of their options.  When an employer asks for Apprentices, we need to be able to respond quickly.  We seek a chance for more students to re-sit KS2 numeracy and literacy, as there is a big demand for good basic skills.

 

Building IAG into the RPA could be complex.  How would it fit in – on top of the regular curriculum?

Yes, but later on. It will be intensive but schools understand the needs of the cohort.  IAG must respond to what a student wants, in their subject area.  RPA adds an opportunity to work on students’ employability and an extra chance to get key skills in place.  Before leaving, students need to gain an understanding of the sector they wish to go into, and to have had some work experience.  Employers say that young recruits are not work ready, but there are plenty of people already employed in their company who have poor numeracy and literacy skills; it’s not just young people who are lacking! Attitude is everything; if young people arrive with the right attitude they can develop the other skills they need, with some support.

 

Kent Further Education Colleges (KFEC) are doing much work on the RPA.

EBP Kent has done a lot of work with Cummins Power Generation on Employability and is seeking accreditation by City and Guilds for work developed so students can do employability units whilst still at school and have some units already done ready to go with them to FE, Employment or on to their apprenticeship.

 

What about traineeships?  Where do they fit in?

To achieve both quality and quantity is the key aim, but we see poor quality.  If there were a Kent Apprenticeship which could set a high standard, it would set the bar high for others to aspire to. Training would have to be of a sufficient standard to be accredited and achieve the Kent kite mark.  Employers would have to raise their game to meet the Kent standard; Apprenticeships could not be just for shelf-stacking or sweeping the floor in a hair salon.

 

This seems a good idea but why should KCC be setting this standard? What role would Ofsted and the National Apprenticeships Service have?

I believe the best national practice arises from the best local practice.

 

What about mobility in Kent and across the UK?

Some young people have a very limited life experience.  Some 14-year-olds have not even visited places beyond their own town.  They need something local which works for them, where they are.

 

The Select Committee is taking a strategic, forward-looking view of the issues, and has in mind the redefining of issues set out in the Richard review. I am not sure how we will follow up what you’ve told us today.

 

I have read that McDonald’s has a good Apprenticeship scheme.

Yes, they have an excellent national training scheme, and are good at giving work experience.  In terms of their value as an employer and provider of Apprenticeships, we can only judge them by their process, not their product.  There are several other large companies – eg Boots, BT, Argos – which have outstanding Apprenticeship schemes, as they can offer a wide range of experience for Apprentices; in customer services, food preparation, marketing, etc.

 

Whose job is it/should it be to pull this together, strategically?

I believe it should be the KCC’s role.  KCC would have a strategic rather than an operational role, as local operational networks are already good.  There is no one panacea, but Kent is the largest county in the UK and could blaze a trail. If a system were too generalised, we would miss out on local culture and styles around Kent.  A system could be based on sectors.  There are currently Apprenticeships available in ten sectors, but there are 40 other sectors in which they are yet to be developed.

 

Who does EBP deal with at KCC?

There are three deliverers in EBP’s area but I last saw them in September.  We never meet.  I see Sue Dunn every six months or so.  I would not want to be on any strategy group as this isn’t necessarily the right role for EBP, but we do deliver quality with an eye on strategy.

 

Do you link with any other local authorities, apart from the KCC?

Some other EBPs work more locally in other areas, and support local authorities in different ways. It might be that EBP isn’t doing what KCC wants it to do, in which case I would seek some direction as to what KCC wants us to do differently.

 

Do you think KCC’s involvement should be more strategic, rather than direct?

KCC is the only organisation in Kent which is able to take an aerial view of the labour market.  EBP is very flexible and will tailor its work and approach to support KCC’s agenda if it can.

 

The Richard review says purchasing power is in, or should be in, the employer’s hands.  What is your view on this?

Employers would like to have that power, and some would manage it well, but it would be open to abuse. I always favour a mixed economy to get far reaching results.

 

What about SMEs?

SMEs might be able to manage it only as a ‘satellite’ provider, supported by a larger ‘parent’ company.  The support of the parent company could be shared by a number of smaller companies.

 

Is it true to say that Kent businesses do not pull their weight on Apprenticeships?  Is there an element of larger companies not wanting to take on Apprentices as they feel they are bearing the burden of training up young people who would then be poached by their smaller competitors?

There might be some who are concerned about this, but retention rates are good, which indicates that they are just as likely to benefit from that training input themselves.

 

Does KCC reach all the many SMEs in Kent?  We know that they make up 97% of Kent businesses.

There are many organisations which speak on behalf of employers, but we get a better range of views when we speak to employers direct.  Quantity does not equal quality, but there are some good examples.  EBP has 14 staff, 7 of whom are on the telephone to employers all day, everyday, about work experience opportunities and other engagement opportunities.

 

Do you have a matching policy and what is it?

EBP Kent has a robust matching system in partnership with the schools and the employers.

 

How many jobs do you not manage to match to?

I have no idea.  One manufacturer asked for three Apprentices, for which we sent them six potential students, but none of them stayed for any length of time.

 

You say you want to see the bar set high to ensure good quality.  How can KCC help with this?

I would say that the word ‘Apprentice’ should only be used for a position which meets the standard of the kite mark, and that any position which is for less than one year should not be described as an Apprenticeship. It could be called a ‘vocational opportunity’ or an ‘internship’, but not an Apprenticeship.  Apprenticeships present a golden opportunity to apply and enforce a kite mark system, and reserve the ‘Apprentice’ name for something of quality.  A kite marked scheme will make quality easy to identify, as the calibre of that scheme will be clear for all to see.

 

So would a role for the KCC be to approve and set the standard for the kite mark?

Yes, I would say so. Apprenticeships should be defined by quality.

 

How were the sectors chosen for Apprenticeships in Kent, and are they the right ones?  Some sectors offer limited opportunities for growth.

I think the digital and gaming industries should be included in the sectors list. There are companies at the cutting edge of research chemistry, and we should be able to make use of them to host Apprenticeships.  Kent should shout about being able to offer this sort of opportunity.  Kent could try something bold and new and make people think afresh. If every school were to commit to set up a minimum of 10 Apprenticeships with local employers, with EBP’s support, and supply another 3 from within itself, eg in the school office, catering or IT services, it could guarantee being able to offer its students 13 Apprenticeship places every year.  EBP’s role in this would be to broker the 10 external placements for each school.

 

Where will Kent be by 2018, do you think, in terms of engaging young people in jobs?

Kent could copy Sweden, where 70% of young people learn at work.  This suits a large number of young workers, and kinetic learning is the most common route. Young people there achieve very well under this system. 

 

With recent work by Richard, and Wolf before him, and traineeships and other work by the Government, there will be a period of concentrated work skills development.

This activity is good, even if it isn’t labelled as ‘Apprenticeships’, as it raises the profile of the issues.  However, there will always be a proportion of young people who are not capable of attaining anything more than the most basic employment as they will not be able to achieve the minimum levels in English and/or maths.

 

What percentage is this, do you think?

I don’t know a figure, but it won’t be very high.

 

Those young people who are able and motivated will find work anyway, whether or not we help them with an Apprenticeship.  But it seems that a growing number are not self-motivated.

The programme of mock interviews organised by the Rotarians, which was mentioned earlier in the interview, sounds good, as this sort of scheme helps develop confidence and self-awareness.  Having esteem, confidence and respect in employment is vital and we need to empower this via a series of practical opportunities that enable students to experience and practice their own employability skills. Something the EBP is hugely committed to.

 

Can you tell us about EBP’s employability centre?

At the moment it’s a virtual centre.  If an employer seeks to take on staff, we develop those staff to the point of being hired. Employers seek EBP’s input to help get young people ready for employment. In a way it’s an ‘employment school’.  Its services are free to employers.

 

How does this compare to work experience?

Is it a ‘safe medium’ between school and employment.

 

Can you guarantee a standard of training?

We will support them but cannot guarantee that all will reach a set standard in a certain time.  It gives employers a chance to flex their muscles and mould trainees into what they want. Young people preparing for work have to compete with their peers from Eastern Europe, who have a more highly developed work ethic.

 

In Japan, I have seen a very specific approach to employment and work ethic, in which many ‘small’ jobs which are relatively unskilled are genuinely respected and valued as part of the workforce.  Examples of these jobs include directing a delivery lorry or stopping pedestrians while the lorry is reversing, doorkeepers and lift keepers. There, what gives you status is not what work you do but the fact that you work at something.

 

Thank you very much for attending today to contribute to the Select Committee’s information gathering.