Agenda item

Mr K G Lynes, Cabinet Member for Kent Adult Social Services, and Mr O Mills, Managing Director, Kent Adult Social Services Directorate, will attend the meeting from 12.15 pm to 1.00 pm to answer Members’ questions on this item.  Some service-users may also attend to give evidence.

(1)       Mr K G Lynes, Cabinet Member for Kent Adult Social Services, Mr O Mills, Managing Director, Kent Adult Social Services Directorate, Mrs M Howard, Director of Commissioning and Provision, West Kent (KASS), Mr C Holden, Project Manager (KASS), Ms B Henry, Modernisation Manager (KASS), and Mrs S Mallion and Mr P Wright, Service Users of Queen Elizabeth Resource Centre attended the meeting for this item.

(2)       The Chairman welcome Mrs Mallion and Mr Wright, service users of the Queen Elizabeth Resource Centre, to the meeting, and invited them to address the Committee and to answer questions from Members.

(3)       Mrs Mallion explained that the Queen Elizabeth Resource Centre had activity-based day services which included a gym, a computer room and woodwork room and that through the Centre, trips were arranged and support given on a “buddy” basis to users.  The Centre was open five days a week and people tended to access it for a maximum of three days per week.  The services were based around the individual and their needs.  Mrs Mallion stated that a lot of people who used the service had acquired their disability and therefore had changing needs.  She stated that there was a great fear of isolation amongst users.

(4)       Mr Wright stated that one of the big strengths of the Centre was that it gave people the opportunity to help each other and to gain information and support.  They would also access outside services and used a “buddy” system.  This was a valuable service, which was led by the Members of the Centre.  He gave the example of a new member who wanted to try sub-aqua.  The Centre members looked into whether this could be provided including its cost-effectiveness and managed to arrange for seven members to try sub aqua in a pool environment.  He emphasised the important role that the Centre played in providing a place for people to meet and provide support and facilities.  If people were based at home, it would be difficult to come together.  One of the important strengths of the Centre was its ability to help people build up their confidence levels.  The members of the Centre wanted people to look at what they could do, not what they could not do. 

(5)       Mr Wright stated that he and other users had been encouraged to go out into the community and see what was actually available.  He had tried to go to a computer café and initially he could not gain access, and, of the users that could gain access, some could not get near the table.  There was also no assistance available to help them with co-ordination.  Users had also been to local gyms and sports centres but had found these also difficult to access by people in a wheelchair.  He mentioned a refurbishment of a bowling alley which used to be used by service users.  When it had been refurbished there was no access for wheelchair users without assistance.  One of the issues that had arisen was the need for service users to have assistance to participate in activities.  At the Centre they used a “buddy” or volunteer system which they would not have at an outside venue.  He also gave the example of three possible centres that had been suggested, and the issues with two of them.  He stated that they had tried to be constructive and see what was available and accessible.

(6)       Mr Wright expressed concern at the pace of change.  He believed that it was happening too quickly before adequate, accessible facilities had been identified.  He stated that users believed in inclusion, but currently, there was a danger that people would become recluses in their own homes and that it would be for the care managers to try to provide something for them. 

(7)       Mr Wright stated that, following the publicity relating to the modernisation of the Centre, more people had applied to join it, as they had become aware of it.   However, KCC had put an embargo on accepting new members.  He stated that Darent Valley Hospital had wanted to refer stroke patients but they were not able to do this at the moment as they could not accept new members.  He stated that they would readily accept this modernisation if there was something better available for them.

(8)       Mrs Mallion stated that service users at the Centre had made a choice and by taking away that service, that choice had been taken away.  She believed that the Centre should continue until there was an equal and better service in place.  She emphasised that Active Lives was a five-year strategy.

(9)       Mr Lynes stated this was an issue which each side felt passionately about.  He appreciated the opportunity at this meeting to hear both sides in a controlled environment and not the emotive one of the media.  He circulated a copy of Active Lives to Members.  This was KCC’s vision for 2007-2012.  This set out what people who used the services wanted them to look like, and was in line with Government and Social Services departments across the country.  He emphasised the importance of the modernisation process across the county, giving service users increased freedoms and choices.  He did not expect this to be a cheaper option, but with Direct Payments there was an increased flexibility.  He recognised there was an increased cost to giving people choice.

(10)     Mr Mills stated that it was important to be clear about the direction of travel and to understand the fears of service users.  However, this was not just about Kent Adult Social Services. It was a whole system change involving Adult Education and leisure centres, to make sure that services were accessible.  He also made the point that 80% of people that were supported by Kent Adult Social Services (KASS) in West Kent did not use the Centre.  He offered to provide Members with update reports over the next few months so that KASS could be held to account and Members could be confident about what was happening.

(11)     Mrs Howard acknowledged that service users valued the opportunity to meet together and help each other and that Mrs Mallion and Mr Wright were very capable and able to help others.  She stated that the aim was to establish a social network centre which would give people the opportunity to come together, which could be staffed by QEF staff.  She anticipated that some service users would take the opportunity to take a Direct Payment.  She stated that some facilities could and should be re-provided as part of adult education.  In relation to gyms, there should be the opportunity to have more gyms in the community and to expand services so that they were available to all service users.  She referred to the Fastrack buses which made accessibility easier.

(12)     Mr Lynes explained that Cabinet Members found it hard to justify maintaining the status quo and pointed to the fact that it was necessary to have 100% of the potential service users in the area on the radar.  Currently only 11% could choose to use the Centre.  There was a need to engage service users and he would like to think that it was possible to work through various options.  He stated that he would not like to see the loss of the Centre before alternatives were in place.  It was necessary to make every reasonable effort to identify alternatives.  He stated that KASS were seeking to engage and define the shape of social care in years to come and would like to think they could proceed at a pace.

(13)     Mr Mills stated that KASS was committed to consultation and believed that they had consulted as fully as they could.  KASS had a good reputation for delivering good services.  He referred to the Government’s direction of travel for 2025 and stated that this needed to be achieved by then.  He stated that Kent was well regarded and had a clear vision in relation to Active Lives.  They had an obligation to the other 89% of potential service users who did not use the Centre and to make sure that they were making the best use of resources.  Day Centres were a traditional way of providing support, but he wanted to move to a world where more people could access services in the community, and, in reality, it was not viable to maintain the services for a small number of users.

Consultation

(14)     In response to a question from Mr Koowaree, Mrs Mallion stated that they had been consulted in February 2008.  In May/June last year, it became apparent that there were proposed changes but it was not clear that this would result in closure of the Centre.  Users were told that it was about modernising services and therefore thought that it was about enhancing what was already there. When it became apparent that this was leading to closure, it became an issue.  She emphasised that Members understood and supported the Government’s long-term agenda to have facilities accessible within the community.  However, at the present time, services were not fully accessible, and it was not possible for people to access services in the same way in the community as they did at the Centre.  She did not believe that Members of the Centre had been given a clear and transparent view of the future.  She did not feel that there had been true consultation with users and carers in relation to what provision there would be in place.  She stated that she did not feel there had been direct service user consultation. 

(15)     In response to a question, Mrs Mallion stated that she had not had a copy of the impact assessment, which she believed should be part of the process.

(16)     In response to a question from Mrs Mallion, Mr Mills stated that he was confident that consultation had been carried out correctly.  As this was not a KCC service, it had not gone through the formal KCC consultation process.  He emphasised that KCC were changing the service but not cutting it.

(17)     Regarding the issue of consultation, Mrs Howard stated that there had been a process in 2003 which had involved service users, and, in the meantime, the Disability Awareness Act had come into force.  She stated that the decision in relation to commissioning services was made in late 2006. The Review Board was established in February, met regularly and involved Mrs Mallion and other service users.  There had also been briefings not just to the Centre users but to other service users as well.  KASS wanted to be able to re-provide local based services and had genuinely listened to service users.  There was also a need for everyone to have an up-to-date assessment so there was a sense of what was required, and this was all part of the process which informed the way forward.

(18)     In response to a question from Mr Horne, Mrs Mallion stated that they were seeking legal advice as they did not believe there had been a true consultation.  She reaffirmed that they wanted a fully-inclusive society, but they believed that the modernisation and closure of the Centre was happening too quickly, without true, and she was clear that changes had to be for the better.

Direct Payments and Networking

(19)     In answer to a question from Mr Law, Mr Lynes stated that Direct Payments gave the opportunity for people to network and to form groups of common interest to enable them to have activities such as, for example, sub-aqua.  In terms of practical networking, it could be possible to have two tables at the back of Costa Coffee and to network in a coffee bar.  This needed to be worked out together with service users.  He stated that service users had said that the building was irrelevant and that it was about the provision of services.

 (20)    In response to a question from Mr Hart, Mrs Howard stated that they were aiming to have three networking sites in community facilities which would give service users the opportunity to meet and to go on from there. Young disabled people that had spoken to had said that what they really wanted was a job and did not necessarily want to be in the company of disabled peers.  There were more young people coming through the system and they were working to make services more accessible.

Transport

(21)     In response to a question on the transport issues, Mr Wright stated that the Centre ran two ambulances, but there was a problem with buses in that they only one wheelchair space on Fastrack buses, and, if this was being used by a buggy, then the wheelchair user had to wait for the next service.  Mrs Howard accepted that transport was an issue, but that Fastrack buses ran every 10 minutes, and a percentage of service users owned their own car.

Support

(22)     In response to a question, Mr Lynes stated the he could evidence that the 11% who used the Centre did not have a more complex level of needs and some were not the responsibility of KCC. For example, there were service users who came from the Medway Towns and used the Centre.  He stated that Mr Mills had agreed that everybody at the Queen Elizabeth Resource Centre would receive support to go forward. He also referred to the freedom that Direct Payments gave.

(23)     Mr Mills stated that he had responsibility to make best use of resources, and that he would do his best to make sure that services provided in the community were acceptable. 

(24)     RESOLVED that:-

(a)       Mr Lynes, Mr Mills, Mrs Howard, Mrs Holden, Ms Henry, Mrs Mallion and Mr Wright be thanked for attending the meeting to answer Members’ questions;

(b)       the Managing Director be requested to give further consideration to the need for a base for operations in the area to ensure that no service users were overlooked; and

(c)        the Cabinet Member and the Managing Director be advised that the Cabinet Scrutiny Committee would like to be assured that future consultation on changes to service provision should follow a standard format whether KCC is the provider or the commissioner of the service.