Agenda and draft minutes

Dover North Neighbourhood Forum - Tuesday, 27th May, 2008 7.00 pm

Venue: St. Margaret's Village Hall, Reach Road, St. Margaret's at Cliffe

Contact: Will Farmer  01622 696911

No. Item



Eileen Rowbotham (outgoing Chair) to invite the Vice Chair to take Chair.


1.         Introduction and welcome from KCC Councillor Mrs Eileen Rowbotham (outgoing chair).  Mrs Rowbotham summarised the meetings held over the past year and thanked KCC and DDC officers for their help.  Parish representatives were reminded they are responsible for setting agenda items.


In accordance with the terms of reference, the Chair of the Forum was handed from Mrs Eileen Rowbotham to Councillor David Hart (St. Margaret’s PC).  David Hart thanked the outgoing Chair and stated he was looking forward to being Chair this year. 




Bill Butler, KCC Area Youth Officer, on the agenda to speak on current local issues about young people.


Matters arising and notes from previous meeting


The Notes of the previous meeting of the Forum held on 20th November 2007 approved and the Chair referred to the help given by Wingham Parish Council on affordable housing.


Any Declarations of Interest




Planning legislation and planning agreements and an outline of local works currently programmed for the area

Nigel Smith, Head of Development Investment for Kent County Council will give a presentation on planning legislation and planning agreements the authority involves itself in along with an outline of local works currently programmed.


Nigel Smith, Head of Development Investment, Kent County Council was in attendance for this item.


·              Developer contributions to infrastructure which included both financial and other means of achieving social inclusion and community benefits;

·              Examples of major projects and the multi-disciplinary teams working on them;

·              Challenges provided by sourcing accurate data on demographic profiles, school attendance figures, etc. and the financial strain imposed by advice from central government on affordable housing and development of brownfield sites;

·              The two-tier system presented a further challenge; district councils are the planning authority, not KCC.

·              Changes arising from Department for Communities and Local Government  consultation and planning obligations; community infrastructure levy;

·              Basic principles including methodology, evidence based on data, planning policy and competing challenges;

·              The purpose of changing vision to reality, achieving sustainability, and service delivery.


Q. Local authorities can identify what they need but no teeth to force service providers to do what they would like e.g. GP provision, only come where there is a business need, as GPs are businesses.

A. It is true, but LPA’s need to be pro-active from the start of developments.


Q. Can a commitment be got from a service provider, although evidence of need comes from them, so still can’t force them?

A. Developer has to fulfil planning obligations and pay for services. They cost it in during the land deal.


Q. The fact that the LDF in Dover has been in and gone out – has KCC been involved/agreed for the 14,000 new houses, even though there is no new water sources planned?

A. KCC is a statutory consultee and and objection by KCC would be looked on very dimly.


Q. How is highways and other infrastructure going to cope with extra housing?

A. There are documents that go into great depth into this issue.

Q. The highways case for the increased housing does seem very wrong.


Q.  The things that the community really needs cannot be written in to the LDF. How are they going to come about?

A. KCC do have a direct link with the PCT via KASS, so do have influence/involvement with the provision of health care for example.


Q. What influence does KCC have over sustainable developments., getting building standards higher BREEM rated for example?

A. This isn’t anything that S106 agreements can do. Building regulations can control this, delivered through the LDF.


Q. In St Margaret’s PC, would District back up higher eco-standards set by the PC for new housing developments?

A. Can’t give an answer, as we may not have the capacity in the planners but do have the same ambitions. St Margaret’s bringing in their own standards might be difficult to administer by planning and create difficulties.  .


Cllr. Paul Watkins explained that DDC was looking to achieve the highest eco-standard in new buildings and cited the development at Connaught Barracks being to Eco Standard 4 (possibly 5).  Representations had been made to Government to designate this as an ‘Eco Region’.  Cllr Kit Smith reported that as Dover was  ...  view the full minutes text for item 5.


Dover Local Development Framework

Ken Todd, Senior Transport Planner, KCC will be present to assist in any considerations of transport matters in relation to the Dover Local Development Framework.



Ken Todd, Senior Transport Planner, Kent Highways Services was in attendance for this item.


·              Ken expanded on the County’s role in the LDF process to collect and disseminate data in support of balanced decision making.

·              KCC was involved in the consultation process on the DDC core strategy, site allocations and developer contributions together with contributing to the major transport strategy. County supported option 3 in the Dover LDF process but not option 4. 

·              No major route improvements are planned. KCC is waiting for the outcome of the LDF consultation and will work with DDC to achieve the agreed development plans. 

·              Highway Services’ workload includes £800k identified this year for transport schemes in Dover which represented a significant percentage of the allocation (9%).

·              Ken could not comment on the A258 as a multi-agency Working Group had been set up to consider safety issues on the road. However, all four Coroner’s reports and crime investigation reports have indicated the road was not the problem.

·              Other major schemes included Aylesham and Snowdown, and the White Cliffs Business Park.


Q. What is the solution for lorries being taken down small roads by Sat Navs?

A. Can’t legislate for silly decisions. Sat Navs are being looked at nationally. KCC can continue to lobby organisations who control the technology and need Government support on this.


Q. How long will it take to get traffic calming into Ripple?

A. It may never happen. KHS has prioritisation system for these schemes.


Q. Can Parishes raise funds to assist KHS to pay for calming schemes?

A. There are knock on affects of traffic calming e.g. public transport, more vibrations. There are difficult things that need to be balanced as well.

Q. There is also a long wait to get anything done by KHS.


Q. In Ringwould, some main roads have restricted speed because the surface is very bad but a ¼ mile of road (marine parade) has been re-surfaced that isn’t even a main road? Why can this be?

A. There is a system in place to decide what gets done and what doesn’t and there will be good reasons for the decisions and prioritisation.


Q. 2 deaths on A258 per year. Certain things do amaze me such as the line markings seem poor in places and get erased by traffic.  Why doesn’t KHS ensure lines are painted on the road?

A. KHS has a maintenance hierarchy and has to balance reactivity with proactive work.


Q. There should be more consultation though between KHS and Parishes. Things happen without any discussion or anyone knowing why or who.

A. Communication is being addressed.


Q. What about School transport. Because many people can’t get passes they have to drive and increase traffic on road. IS more being done to improve access to buses for pensioners?

A. KCC has no control of bus networks. Bus companies run bus services that need to be profitable. KCC is part of quality bus partnerships that helps



All Parishes - it  ...  view the full minutes text for item 6.


Local issues relating to young people

Bill Butler, KCC Area Youth Officer, will speak on current local issues relating to young people.


This item was referred to the July meeting as the speaker, Bill Butler, who was going to present on this topic was unable to attend.


Future Agenda Topics

General discussion on what topics could be considered for future meetings



July 08: Youth issues and district youth strategy

October 08: Community safety; Community policing; Anti-social behaviour


January 09: to be decided later in the year but suggestions received include:


·              How to access grant funding; district funding fair;

·              Planning: Restrictions on eco-friendly building caused by Listed Buildings/Conservation Areas.


Need to re-visit subjects of the past as well to follow up on actions and issues that were raised.


Letters will be sent to parishes asking for topics for January meeting.


Dates of future meetings

All meetings will start at 7:00 pm


16th July 2008

7th October 2008

21st January 2009



Date of next meeting


·                    16th July 2008 - Burgoyne Community Centre – Young people


Venues for future meetings


·              Ripple Village Hall (suggested) 7 October 2009       

·              TBC 21 January 2009